Robles: I’m very well as well, and it’s a pleasure to be speaking with you. Can you tell our listeners a little bit briefly about your history and what happened with you in MI5? And then, I’d like to ask you about Gaddafi a little bit.
Shayler: Sixteen years ago I blew the whistle. I’d been an MI5 officer and I was workingthe Libyan desk, and MI6 had briefed me about an operation in which they had a source in Libyan military intelligence who they were funding to carry out a coup, which would involve the assassination of Colonel Gaddafi.
The People that MI6 were paying, would then seize power and they would hand over the two Lockerbie suspects. But unfortunately, this Libyan military intelligence officer was really a group of Islamic extremists, basically.
So even though this was 1996, the intelligence services had sort of highlighted Islamic terrorism as the new threat. So we were paying money, the British Government, to the enemies of the British people to bump off someone who was no longer an enemy – Colonel Gaddafi. So the whole thing didn’t make any sense, and innocent people died and that’s why I blew the whistle.
Shayler: That’s right, yeah! I mean, I’ve been put in prison twice. But more seriously than that, I’ve had countless attempts on my life. I’ve been in four very peculiar car accidents, any of which I could have been killed in, or maimed, and I walked out without a scratch each time.
One particular of interest was when I was heading to see Mohamed al-Fayed’s security people two months after the death of Princess Diana, and the driver, who had been sent down by Mohamed al-Fayed, fell asleep at the wheel and he hit thecentral reservation of the motorway.
Fortunately, because he hit the central reservation he woke up, and grabbed the car, and it got back under control a bit. But of course in the Diana death there was carbon monoxide, elevated levels of carbon monoxide in Henri Paul’s blood, he was driving the car that Diana died in.
So, I am inclined to think that because we were heading up to see Mohamed al-Fayed’s head of security to talk about the Diana death, that was an attempt on my life. And I’ve had many, many other situations like that. Obviously, that doesn’t stop me, but that shows the extent they’ll go to to shut up the critics who are really getting under their skin.
Robles: I see. There is so much I’d like to speak with you about. Maybe we could get your opinion, your views, on other whistleblowers. I’m sure Edward Snowden you know about, Bradley Manning. What’s your opinion, as a whistleblower yourself who’s suffered?
Shayler: It’s appalling, isn’t it? Because these people actually, essentially blow the whistle about the crimes of the states they were working for. It’s like me, you know, I wasn’t just speaking out about intelligence operations because I felt like it, I was actually describing very serious crimes in which people were murdered and in which our terrorist enemies were funded by people who are supposed to be protecting us.
Now, it’s exactly the same thing with Bradley Manning. He’s released, as far as I can gather data from the WikiLeaks stuff, is he’s released stuff of the US forces in places like Afghanistan and Iraq just gunning down civilians. That’s a war crime; this man is a witness to crimes, he shouldn’t be going to prison.
You know, and I hope he’s learnt, he has learnt in fact, learnt his lessons from my experience, because I didn’t take the documents. I took documents and I left them in the safe-keeping of the newspaper to hand them back to the authorities, because I actually believed the authorities would give me a fair hearing, which shows in a parallel sense how naïve and stupid I was, really. But of course, Ed Snowden hasn’t done that, he’s got his documents off to WikiLeaks or whatever, and he can use those as a bargaining chip, and we can then really see what America has really been up to, basically.
But these people are heroes. There is no way these people are criminals at all. You know, I say everybody who brands them as a criminal, you know people in the US and people in the UK. If you’d lost your children in attacks carried out by a foreign army, you’d want to know about it, you wouldn’t be saying to the guy who has just blown the whistle “he’s a criminal”, you’d be going in and saying “thank you”. And because I’ve had that in my situation, because I actually gave evidence to the “Bloody Sunday Inquiry”.
You probably don’t know, many years ago, 40 years ago, 30 unarmed Catholics were gunned down in Londonderry, in a civil rights march, and for many years they had an inquiry in which the British Government said “Oh yeah, the IRA have caused this and everything else”.
But gradually, over the years the families campaigned, and they realized that that evidence wasn’t the case, the IRA hadn’t started it, there was no evidence of that. But then what did the British authorities do? They tried to blame Martin McGuinness for firing the shot that started Bloody Sunday.
Fortunately, now I was out of the service, when I saw the agents that they were using to back this up, with the agent report, I knew the agent was what is called a bullshitter, basically. And I gave the evidence to the inquiry, and when I came out members of the families was coming up to me saying that they were just so glad that somebody with the authority had actually stood up for the truth and actually bothered to tell the truth, rather than the kind of officialdom they had come up against for years and years and years.
And let’s face it. This is a form of psychological torture, it really is, to be telling the truth,to have lost loved ones, and have a monolithic state telling you the people that you lost were “terrorists” and you should go away and shut up!
The people we are opposing are psychopaths. They are absolute psychopaths! In each case I say to them “where are the principles of things you would be done by, (unintelligible). In those circumstances you would want the truth, so why do you deny that truth to other people?”
Robles: Do you know anything about what was going on in Syria? Can you comment on these chemical weapons claims? I mean, there are a lot of discrepancies in what the US is trying to push. And I know, I think and you know, they want to invade Syria. And it seems to me, they are trying to fabricate a pretext to go in there. What do you think about that?
Shayler: Yes, absolutely! This is a total pretext. When you study these world things, you realize that these people are made out to be madmen, like Gaddafi and Saddam, and Assad, and so on, are not actually madmen at all. And they often are much better in their behavior because they know the West is watching.
In the recent years, I can tell you, there are two countries went abroad andkilled two million people, from other countries, used things like phosphorus and used depleted uranium, i.e. chemical weapons which are banned, who’ve used cluster bombs – and that’s the UK and the US. They are your two terrorist organizations in the world who’ve got a record for using chemical warfare.
There is no way in a situation we have with Assad at the moment in Syria, that he’d want to use chemical weapons because he is actually beating the rebels. He knows the US and the UK are spending a fortune on backing these rebels, and they’re getting nowhere basically. So, he wouldn’t use chemical weapons now. The Russians are saying they have no evidence of chemical weapon use here.
And we know, in the past going to wars they’ve used any kind of stuff they can as propaganda. Remember in 1991, when we had this girl who came on and addressed the US Congress and said “Oh yes, Iraqi soldiers have been taking babies out of incubators and killing them”, and all this kind of thing. And it turned out that she was somebody of the opposition or something, and it all just turned out to be setup.
So, I cannot believe that we have politicians who are perceiving this seriously at the moment. People like William Hague, he should be on trial for war crimes, I mean, hanging really is too good for him.
I’m a man of compassion and everything else, but a politician who comes out there and constantly campaigns for war and loss of innocent life that will lead to, and never seems to learn from it.He is just a psychopath, you know. And we’ve got to get rid of those people’s from our government.