Jacob Appelbaum - Now Makes Apps for the NSA



Assange Lost Faith in Justice System


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Hello! This is John Robles, I’m speaking with Jacob Appelbaum . He is a developer with the Tor Project and a close associate of Julian Assange. Hello Sir! How are you today? I’m fantastic except for the obvious situation with the dear friend of mine.

Hello! This is John Robles, I’m speaking with Jacob Appelbaum. He is a developer with the Tor Project and a close associate of Julian Assange.

Hello Sir! How are you today?

I’m fantastic except for the obvious situation with the dear friend of mine.

Can you tell us a little bit about what is going on with Julian? Why did he decide to seek asylum in the Ecuadorian Embassy? And what are the prospects of him getting out there?

Sure! I think part of the reason that he is there right nowis that he’s lost faith in the system of justice that he’s been thrown into. So, he is currently there right now because he thinks that Sweden is acting in bad faith. And there is every reason to think that there is something apart from the grand jury in the United States which is harassing Americans and others to what’s happening in Sweden and of course the way that the Swedish Government seems to be treating Julian with regard to as an example being willing to interview him or not interview him remotely from the United Kingdom.

Can you clear up a little bit, some of our listeners and a lot of people I know were curious why it would be easier for the US to get him in Sweden than in Great Britain? I mean Great Britain is classically the staunchest ally of the US.

Well, I think it is not a question of easier, I think it is a question of what is more possible. In the UK, it is quite clear that he was able to be essentially free to roam around with a certain restriction. This restriction of movement is clearly better than being in prison but not significantly better in a lot of ways. So, the UK in a sense already had him in their clutches and what’s happening with Sweden is that if he is transferred to Sweden, he will be in a jail, incommunicable in that prison and it will not be possible for him to see the light of day unless he is either released by the Swedish or unless he is transferred to another country and that country chooses to free him.

With regard to the UK being easier to extradite from, it is possible, that’s true, but as we’ve seen with the case of Garry McKinnon, the alleged attacker who supposedly broke into this mass suicide, I don’t fully understand the setup of this trial but my understanding that it’s been ten years and he is still hasn’t been extradited.

Of course the UK and Australia have quite a special relationship given the existence of the dominion and the common world countries and their relationships, whereas Sweden in 2001 actually cooperated with the US, and specifically with the CIA with regards to an extraordinary rendition to a country in the Middle East where the people, that were the subjects of that rendition, were tortured. And the United Nations and human rights were both strongly criticizing Sweden for this. Additionally Sweden, as far as I understand, has not denied any of extradition requests the US has made.

Have you talked to Julian lately? How is he? What is his state of mind right now?

I’ve been in an indirect contact with him. He seems to be alright but it is clear he needs our support at this time. For no other reason and because the situation that he is in was the last stage effort. If he had been transferred to Sweden, he would not have had the opportunity to claim asylum, this is very important. In the United Kingdom right now it was actually better for him in the sense that when transferred to Sweden he would not be able to walk into an embassy. So, now he’s used that last swallow of freedom that he has to follow the due process that is afforded to him with regards to seeking asylum in yet another country since his country seems to have abandoned him with the exception of Senator Scot Ludlam.

The Foreign Minister Bob Carr who refuses to respond to any of my questions to him, he suggests that Julian is getting all the treatment that he deserves and he getting every last bit of consular assistance. Well, I visited Julian in London multiple times actually and I can tell you that the only time that he’s had any visit at all from the Australian Government that was actually helpful to him is when Scot Ludlam and Felicity Hill of the Green Party flew all the way on their own dime in order to come to support and to see him. And Bob Carr as far as I know didn’t even bother to show up. He is I think at the moment in Libya and he doesn’t really seem to care very much about what is happening with Julian and isn’t really supporting him. And if you read some of the parliamentary transcripts you will see that he is not exactly a supportive guy and it is quite clear that he is not really interested in helping.

What can people internationally do to help Julian right now?

I think a couple of things. One thing is to understand that it is not that Julian has no interest in resolving these issues in Sweden. I talked to him quite extensively about it. The problem is that Sweden will not make even the most basic guaranties. For example they could interview him right now in the embassy and clear things up, they refused to do that. So, pressuring the Swedish Government to remotely interview him, as they have done in many other cases, that is an extremely useful thing to do.

Furthermore, pressuring the Australian Government to actually protect their own citizens, I mean how sad it is that an Australian citizen had to go to another country to ask for help. And finally writing a letter of support to the Ecuadorian Government suggesting that you would go there as a tourist, that you would be ever so grateful, that giving Assange this asylum would really be a positive thing in the world – that is the thing which everyone can do, it is as simple as going to the embassy’s website and filling in the form. I wrote one of these letters myself.

So, go to the Ecuadorian Embassy website in the UK and fill in the form in support for Julian, right?

As an example. I think trying to convince the UK that giving him a safe passage to Ecuador or should his asylum be granted is of the high priority because there is this really strange situation which may occur which is that Ecuador may grant him the asylum, Sweden may not recognize it and the UK may try to prevent Julian from moving from the Ecuadorian Embassy to Ecuador. And thus he will essentially be in yet another jail type situation. But at least in this case there an extremely good outcome which is that it is unlikely that he would be transferred to the US or that any harm would come to him in that embassy.

You yourself suffered a lot of persecution for your friendship and near association with Assange. Would you like to tell our listeners a little bit what’s happened to you?

I think the simplest thing to describe it, is to just say modern maccarthyism. WikiLeaks in some circles in the US is considered to be the new red. And unfortunately, as far as I’m concerned having been the subject to this, generally I’m proud of my country. I think it is really distasteful kind of events that comes from a sort of nationalistic fervor, it is absolutely insane to support all these wars where are committed countless atrocities. This type of status caused the US Government to detain me, to take my fame, to use the legal apparatus to get data about me, to get records, I have been physically surveyed. I’ve had agents approach me in the airports, I’ve had them approaching me at conferences when I speak. And many of my friends have experienced similar issues. And this is clearly an attempt to intimidate and harass blacklists and to continue the same traditions that Andrew McCarty brought on people.

Ok, thank you. You were listening to an interview with Jacob Appelbaum. He is a developer with the Tor Project in Washington State in the US and a close associate of Julian Assange.



Last Update: 08/06/2023 03:23 +0300



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